Iām Chris, one of the co-founders of Shimmer. In 2022, following my ADHD diagnosis, I launched Shimmer (https://shimmer.care), a 1:1 ADHD Coaching for adults (HN launch here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33468611 ). One problem we discovered while running 1:1 coaching is that people werenāt able to actually follow through (in real life) on the ideas they came up with during their weekly sessions with their coach.
There is a concept called body doubling thatās popular within the ADHD communityāitās basically getting things done in the presence of other people. The positive accountability is proven to work. However, our members told us they tried other body doubling solutions or attempted to organize it themselves in real life but none of the solutions stuck. So we reverse engineered productive moments our members described, paired with scientific backing of what motivates ADHD-ers, and designed an online body doubling experience for our coaching members that provides a safe but productive space for them to get things done between weekly sessions.
A few of the motivators we infused into the traditional body doubling experience were 1) newness/novelty ā each session has a different guided experience in the break like breathwork or stretching, 2) urgency ā thereās a large visible pomodoro timer on the top left that counts down from 25 min, 3) community ā the shared space is ADHD-friendly, and has a mood check-in & sharing functionality built in so you donāt feel alone, 4) accountability ā thereās a task list where each time you check something off, it notifies the group, and you can view othersā as well if they opt in. Hereās a video walking through the product experience: https://www.tella.tv/video/shimmer-body-doubling-demo-8b1c
Our body doubling was created and iterated alongside thousands of people with ADHD on our coaching platform over 9+ months of building & iterating with them. Weāre excited to unveil this experience. If you have ADHD (or executive functioning challenges), weād love for you to check out coaching & body doubling and give us critical feedback.
Shimmerās pricing: $140/mo. for Essentials plan (15-min weekly sessions), $230/mo. for Standard plan (30-min weekly sessions), $345/mo. for Immersive plan (45-min weekly sessions); all plans start with an additional 25% off the first month, HSA/FSA-eligible. The reason why the price is so high is that this is not a self-guided app or SaaS tool. Youāre matched with a real, credentialed coach (not AI) and since ADHD coaching is not reimbursed in the US, the price is hard for us to bring down because the largest cost component is the coachās compensation.
*We know these prices are still expensive for many people with ADHD. Here are the actions weāre taking: (1) we offer needs-based scholarships and aim to have 5% of members on them at any time, (2) we often run fully sponsored scholarships with our partnersāover 60 full ride scholarships and 100 group coaching spots have been disbursed alongside Asian Mental Health Project, Government of Canada, and more, and (3) we have aligned our coaching model alongside Health & Wellness Coaching, which is expected to be reimbursed in the next years. If there are ways we can further drive down the cost, please reach out to me directly at chris@shimmer.care.
Before smartphones existed, a dozen friends and I would sit on webcam for hours, mostly in silence, just doing our things. Studying, surfing the web, whatever. It was a website called tinychat.com . It was a decade before zoom calls. We would carry our laptops around the campus wifi, chilling in the private webcam room, 4x4 grid of feeds, push to talk. Some would leave it on 24/7. It was kind of like this concept, except not $140/hour, and no coach. Most of us were very ADHD. The coffee shop vibe did help us focus on our work.
I love that! I've never heard of that website but I can completely imagine it. I used to do the same thing in libraries and even mall foodcourts.
And just to clarify, our service is not $140/hour. It's $140 per month, which includes 4 video sessions with your coach and unlimited use of body doubling and other features. Body doubling is not the main offering, it's more of an ancillary product to support our coaching members!
There is a discord channel that has rooms you can join to study with others, including rooms with camera/screen share. It also tracks your time studied, has channels to talk about progress/goals etc. https://discord.gg/study
Nice, thanks for the share!!
My question is why anyone but a few people would want to pay $140-$340/mo for a therapy-based approach not covered by insurance to a condition that is successfully treated in the vast majority of patients with medication that costs $10-20/mo with insurance?
It is a very cool approach to a well documented and tested therapeutic practice, I just don't see the value proposition unless you're someone that specifically could not find any class of medication that worked for them.
Medication has side effects, and it can be really difficult to access unless you can find a psychiatrist who is accepting of the idea that an adult has ADD/ADHD. I knew someone who tried to get it as an adult and she spent 3 years going between therapists and psychiatrists to build up enough history to be prescribed medication.
I am eternally grateful that a friend turned me on to a local doctor who does video calls[0]. I'd struggled with getting in to see someone willing to take my complaints seriously[1], but a week after signing up for an online visit I had a prescription for something that's been life-changing.
For me, personally, the whole effect of the meds are that I'm slightly more awake, as though I drank a cup of stout coffee, and I can more easily decide what to work on and then work on it. I'm fortunate to have had zero adverse reactions.
[0]And then, knowing their clientele, texts and emails the heck out of me to remind me about upcoming appointments, which isn't strictly necessary but is understandable and appreciated.
[1]One doc told me I had trouble focusing because of anxiety. "Do you know what you might be anxious about?" "Yeah, not being able to focus." That wasn't a productive visit.
Yeah, so many people have horror stories with medication, especially with the shortage going on right now and need immediate support. I've personally been impacted by the medication shortage, and many of our members.
My N=1 experience has been remarkable success with medication. Of course, it does require some work and time to find the right med(s) and dosing. Also, the shortage was previously a problem in my very large HMO but early this year it started getting better and by about 5-6 months ago supply has returned to normal.
Iām skeptical of the pricing, but I could see it having value for working professionals or students who are at risk of failing out and donāt have good support on campus.
I personally have ADHD, and Iām medicated. The medication makes it possible to focus on tasks, not guaranteed. I still have to engage cognitive skills and essentially implement a system similar to this, just without a coach. Specifically: break down tasks, use a Pomodoro timer, walk and make tea between focus sessions, put the phone away, use environmental cues like specific work music, etc.
Sleep and exercise are also incredibly important for success with ADHD, and the stimulant medications can interfere with both, so I could see coaching being useful there as well, not sure if the service offers help there.
I don't want to respond to the top comment so it doesn't look attackish, but expecting the medication to completely cure the symptoms for everyone is laughably wrong.
I've got decades of learned behaviors to deal with. And while my doctor was correct in that a medication that works will be like night and day (I'd rephrase it as life changing), I still struggle more than I like.
100%. Medication is one piece of the pie for many people but definitely not the whole for most. Thanks for sharing a piece of your ADHD story though, I think more people need to hear stories like ours (and others) so that they don't feel discouraged if they try ADHD meds and it doesn't act as a magic pill as they expected. This expectation is dangerous.
Love what you said about sleep and exercise. In the Shimmer app, we call this "Lifestyle Medicine" but it's basically the foundational pieces of your life that keeps your body running as it should. And this should 100% be considered before more complex treatments. For us we include sleep, exercise, and food/nutrition.
That's awesome that you have a whole bunch of skills that you've found that works for you! For some people, this takes months to figure out the right mix since what works for someone may not work for others. And also, HOW you do something is almost more important than WHAT skill you're using. I would also add that in coaching, in addition to skills, the coach is supporting in long-term thinking, goal setting, so that there's a direction forward as well, which is really important. I like the quote "medication is like glasses, it helps you see more clearer but it doesn't teach you how to read". I think about this quote a lot because for me, the value of coaching has been to help me set a new direction in life, be reflective in what I want, then work to build an ADHD-friendly life around me that helps me go in that direction.
Totally hear you on pricing. We're working on a few routes around reimbursement, partnerships with schools/workplaces, etc. Right now we are HSA/FSA eligible and also many of our members get it paid for through their work's L&D budget or disability/DEI budgets. Of course, that's a bit harder because it requires them to disclose. We also do a whole ton of scholarships for anyone with a financial need!
I'm not a Shimmer user, but a few things:
1. Insurance doesn't always cover ADHD medication, and when it does it can be a pain; every time my employer switched insurers I had to change my medication because the new insurer wouldn't cover the same thing the previous insurer covered. I've never had insurance cover my psychiatrist either, which amortizes out to about $100/mo.
2. Stimulant medication improves symptoms for over 80% of people with ADHD but "normalizes" about 1/3. So If you are in the 2/3 people that still have some ADHD symptoms on medication, then you're still going to have to cultivate healthy coping mechanisms.
3. Sometimes you go on a trip and forget to bring your medication, or you forget to bring the monthly prescription into the pharmacy on time (no refills on Schedule II substances), or your pharm is out of your meds. Now you are temporarily unmedicated and still need to function.
Regarding #1: my insurance pays for 100% of my meds. It seems like the extended release versions are the hardest to get covered, but people who can get by with the plain old all-at-one formulations may have a much easier time with that. Also, insurance doesn't pay for my doctor directly, but their website has a place for me to submit out of network claims. I do that with my doctor's receipts and insurance cuts me a reimbursement check for a large portion of the bill.
It's a pain in the neck in the sense that getting all the insurance stuff straight is extra hard when you're in need of being treated for ADHD in the first place. It does give me something to hyperfocus on every couple of months.
My insurance also covers my meds but there's still a million things that end up getting in the way of me actually getting it. I won't get into the details but things like working memory with appointments, booking the right appointments, getting vitals, the med shortage and navigating calling different pharmacies, and much more. I have a lot of horror stories (that are mainly my fault and due to my ADHD) and similar stories from our members/community.
It's great that you've got it largely down though!
Personally, I like to know that I have a foundation (and a person) to fall back on when all the med stuff doesn't pan out the way I want it to (which is unfortunately frequently), and a big part of the value of coaching & body doubling too is community and not going through this alone.
Extended release was hard with some, but I had one insurer that would only pay for 1 pill per day, so I had to use ER with them.
1. Agree, and to add in all the steps it takes to actually get meds consistently (not a 1-time solve) + the med shortage that a lot of people have been impacted by 2. Yes and some of our members can't take stimulant medication because of other conditions they have that require meds that don't mix with stimulants 3. Yup!
Coaching is different from talk therapy in that it's focused on more action-oriented, future-oriented concerns. For example, in therapy, you'll talk about WHY / WHERE a specific thought process came from, vs. in therapy you'll talk about how you can design your life in a way that minimizes impact of this thought process. Things like calendar design, routine design, how you do to do lists, skills you may need to learn, the list goes on. These are things that ADHD coaches are trained on and things that therapists likely won't support with. Also, coaching is about accountability so things like check-ins throughout the week and nudge/reminders are a key part of ADHD coaching but not therapy.
Also many of our clients have done (or are currently doing) therapy and come to Shimmer because their therapist suggested it.
And on your point of medication, many people do not want to take medication (cultural or other reasons), or cannot take medication (e.g. side effects or can't mix with their other meds).
As someone with ADHD, I think this is a great idea. Yes it's expensive, but the reason why a lot of neurotypical solutions don't work for me is because they lack design details and nuances that the ADHD brain requires. I've spoken to non-ADHD therapists in the past (great for some things!), and have also spoken with ADHD coaches and there is a difference.
Yes, 100%. A lot of the design decisions are subtle but solve a pain point and make things easier and more delightful to use. We need every little bit of help to make sure we show up to and work through these sessions.
I've also used non-ADHD therapists and other healthcare providers and it's always tough if they're not neuro-affirming. Especially before I was diagnosed and couldn't even put my finger on what was wrong.
> credentialed coach
Is this a legal term? Is there any real qualification, proven behind this? Or is it like in Germany, where anyone could call themself a "credentialed coach" and "help" other people.
Because professional help from a therapist would surely be called such, wouldn't it?
Especially from a platform that allows racist hatred onto their comment section.
ADHD 'coaches' are such a predatory scam. It's so prevalent and it's just revolting imo.
If someone is using the term 'coach' it's because they have no credentials thus can't use a term protected for use by only qualified professionals, so like you said anyone can just call themselves a coach.
Additionally, like OP says, as they're 'coaches' they're not actually qualified health professionals of any kind thus won't be covered by insurance. Here in Australia our socialised healthcare system doesn't cover them (nor should it! See a psychologist, which our healthcare system needs to really increase its funding of)
Inappropriate, harmful, or unethical behaviour by these people goes unreported because they're not covered under our national regulatory body for healthcare as well.
It's not just an expensive scam, there's absolutely no protections at all. I really hate it.
I'm genuinely happy for people who have an ADHD coach who isn't terrible but the problem is that there's so many gaps in care and filling them with totally unqualified randos with no registration or regulation who charge at least as much as an actual qualified professional on top of that is just horrendous, abysmal, and not at all a solution to these problems.
The 2 credentialing bodies we hire from are International Coaching Federation (ICF) and National Board Health & Wellness Coaches (NBC-HWC).
But yes, anyone can call themselves a coach. They would not be credentialed though.
That's one of the challenges I personally felt when I was looking for a coach when I was diagnosed and couldn't really figure out what was legit and what wasn't. That's part of the mission behind Shimmer too, so that members know that if they come to Shimmer, they're getting a qualified coach who has went through a robust screening process, and undergo ongoing supervision, training, and community! Actually only 3.7% of qualified coaches who apply actually get through our 4-step process.
While ICF and NBC-HWC provide some structure, these certifications are inadequate for supporting individuals with ADHD and mental health conditions.
ICF requires only 60-125 hours of general coaching training and NBC-HWC, while more health-focused, still lacks deep mental health and neurodiversity education.
For comparison, mental health professionals complete 4-8 years of specialized education, thousands of supervised clinical hours, and must maintain state licenses.
The risk isn't just about qualification inflation - it's about potentially harmful advice. Coaches without extensive mental health training may miss red flags, misinterpret symptoms, or suggest strategies that conflict with evidence-based treatments. While coaches can provide supplementary support, positioning them as primary mental health support for ADHD individuals, even with these certifications, could delay proper treatment and worsen outcomes.
A 4-step screening process is good, but the baseline credentials still fall short for mental health care.
The focus should be on integration with licensed healthcare providers rather than positioning coaching as a standalone solution.
Is it proven method? If so, insurance should cover it so you don't have to pay subscription fees out of your pocket. If not, don't bother. There are thousands of services like this, and I have not heard any one of them that worked for the vast majority of people with ADHD.
Yes, ADHD coaching has been studied and outcomes have been proven. Experts like Russell Barkley also recommend it. The challenge isn't coaching as a modality, but rather the sparseness in quality across the whole coaching field since it's not a protected term. At Shimmer, our coaches are vetted, trained, and supervised, and practice evidence-based methodologies that have been designed in partnership with our clinical partners.
We also track outcomes. - 83% of Shimmer ADHD coaching members self report better ability to manage their symptoms after 6 weeks. - Shimmer members improve their BDEFS scores (Executive Functioning Skills) by 12% over a 3 month coaching period. - Shimmer members reduce their BFIS scores (Life impairment across key life domains) by 17% over a 3 month coaching period.
Do you have a published peer-reviewed studies on your method?
ADHD coaching is as proven as regular life coaching - not at all. It's done by people who want that therapist money without having to bother with getting a degree or being a practitioner in a regulated industry. The ADHD coaching space is particularly predatory in my experience.
I suspect twitch is a pseudo form of whatever this is, also, coffee shops
Yes, exactly! You can do body doubling in so many different ways. In real life you can do coffee shops, libraries, having friends over to study/work, or even just calling your mom while you do dishes. These are all technically body doubling. Online there are also options that all have slightly different styles. Key is finding what works for you. For example, focusmate is 1:1 where you meet up with a stranger and what's cool about that service is that you can log on pretty much any time of the day and find someone to work with. There are also tons of communities and creators who will host body doubling as a part of whatever else they're doing!
I'm in the middle of ADHD diagnosis. Might still turn up something else, but ADHD or adhd/Asperger's is where my bets are.
If this works and helps with chronic, pathological procrastination, it easily "produces" a few hours of productivity per week (that wouldn't be there otherwise).
With 20 hours per month, it's enough value that it's not that high threshold for it to be "profitable". Even a no brainer for high grossing vocations like SWE in USA.*
I'm bookmarking this thread and will see it after the diagnosis and next salary.
*I'm not a SWE, but I'm a factory worker in Norway, making me top 1% anyway. This explains why the profitability equation gives a positive result for me.
Hi! I hope your diagnosis goes smoothly.
Feel free to tell me to go away, but here's some unsolicited advice.
I have ADHD and I'd highly recommend you avoid coaching. You're better off seeing a qualified, registered, regulated practitioner, especially at these prices. Therapy will help you build better coping mechanisms and all that. Coaching is a predatory scam that has just exploded recently.
As someone who relies on body doubling, phoning a friend for five minutes is free and does the job. There's even discord servers for this as well. I've hired support workers in short bursts for this as well. For the low key stuff like that there's so many options that are lower cost or free, and are honest about the benefits. See a therapist for all the other stuff.
I really hope you find supports that work for you regardless. Good luck!
> I've hired support workers in short bursts for this as well.
Can you expand on this?
I recently moved and have been procrastinating the myriad of paperwork moving from one state to another involves. What helped was my insurance broker pressuring me to get some of the paperwork completed.
I meant disability support workers, I should have been a bit more precise, sorry! I'm not sure if that clears up what I meant but in case it doesn't: Disability support work is a super broad label so I'll just ramble a little about how they've helped me. I've been really lucky to find people who are interested in the particular tasks at hand to help me. Sometimes it's like hiring an additional frontal lobe, sometimes I need them for really specific things like helping me travel. Sometimes I just need extra support in planning and executing something at home that my ADHD and/or Autism makes very challenging like filling in a bunch of paperwork. It's often that I don't need help with the literal paperwork itself, but I need help/guidance in self regulation, managing my disabilities symptoms that can be destructive and unhelpful like when I just start trying to push though and do a bad job and burning out to boot is something support workers have helped me with. Longer term strategies and capacity building I work with my psychologist on but I'm always going to be disabled and neurodivergent lol.
Unlike 'coaches', disability support workers are regulated (somewhat laughably atm but they are regulated and registered, they have police checks, and professional standards), they must do at least a certificate through a registered training organisation, and if they want to do certain tasks with more like help with dressing changes or helping someone manage their medications, they need to have extra training. Those aren't fantastic examples because those things are often done by nurses, but the point I'm trying to make with that part is that as a general rule, they know their role, their skills, they know their value and don't feel the need to 'dress it up' to manipulate people into thinking they're equivalent to a psychologist or something like these abhorrent 'coaching' services do. They're also regulated and misrepresenting oneself is a bit of a no-no.
My lisdexamfetamine has run out for today. Dunno if that's obvious or not /s
If there's something I can try clarify once I'm back to being medicated please let me know
Thanks a lot for this reply. This is very heartwarming and informative. Looks like there is a world of tools to help me better function in the society.
Good luck on your diagnosis. How is that like in Norway?
Norway is a welfare state, but there are caveats. I'm a Polish immigrant, worked here in a slaughterhouse for 14 years, after coming for a summer job after second time I failed first semester on Tech Uni.
Until last year, my doctor was a racist cunt (tho me not showing enough emotions on my face could have same effect). After begging for a year to get a MRI of my lower back (put myself in queue for a different doctor 3 months in, it still took almost a year to change), I paid for the MRI in Poland (expen$ive, but cheaper that private MRI in Norway) and found out I have serious issues with my back that got much worsened because of no treatment and continuing doing very heavy work on the killing line (cows).
Changing the doctor opened a different world to me, because before I felt treated as a N. Stupid outlander, here just to be exploited and to get minimum back. Sorry to people whom it offends. To defend my previous doctor gatekeeping me from any diagnostics for my back (and 6 years ago for autism, which I suspected, but didn't get accepted to see a psychologist), I have to say that a lot of Polish immigrants, with cutthroat post communist mentality of hostility towards the State and using any tricks possible to sit on paid leave and do as little work as possible. (Poland was occupied by Russia and Germany, and later only Russia for 250 out of last 300 years, so the State was never Us but Them).
New doctor pushed the things with my back, but also opened a possibility to try to get a green light for a public health system ADHD diagnosis.
I've already tried doing a rushed diagnosis during summer holidays in Poland, 3 or 4 years ago. I procrastrinated (and it was quite expensive, which added to hesitation) and ended up getting paired with my younger brother's (diagnosed with ADHD) psychologist. Not only I got a negative, but also lost the connection with my youngest brother (with whom I had best relations of all my 4 siblings), because he thought that I'm falsely appropriating the ADHD/Autism to excuse my laziness. Except for my sister, nobody believed (from 4 siblings) when I showed direct quotes from psychiatric books by Thomas Brown about why I'm in a group for a likely false negative from an inexperienced psyhologist. To mention them quickly, why in my case it could have been a false negative: - high IQ (wish I was smart, I'm just good at solving IQ tests) individuals don't struggle with same things as regular and lower IQ, which makes it harder to spot for less experienced - age - at 35 I've learned a lot of coping mechanisms and also found a niche in my life where it's not such an issue - f. ex. you can't be late with your work in the slaughterhouse - being distracted and not doing your job fast enough is instantly evident. - very few issues before life got more complicated - first ADHD issues around age of 13, bigger in high school, even bigger on the University. In some diagnostic criterias, no issues before 6 completely disqualifies you. - psychologist took a review of my 3 parents (stepdad), but refused to take one from my wife, who lives with me and knows me. My biological dad (obvious case of some form of executive function disorder) left my mom when I was 3. My stepdad thinks psychology is a fraud (even after his son committing suicide at 16y) and my mom has lot of guilt over the brother that killed himself and my "failed life" compared to other siblings who all have awesome jobs in IT at home. - psychologist was just a couple years out of school, a hard NO for diagnosing adults (children are easy to diagnose, because they don't yet mask), - psychologist only had 3h for diagnosis, not good in my case, - psychologist said that biggest factor in negative diagnosis is my performance on the attention/memory/reasoning test, where I used memorizing techniques, brakes and managed to hack one very hard test that tries to bore you out.
Nontheless, my wife, book from my sister about ADHD (Dirty Laundry) and my wish and dire need to change jobs trough completing education pushed me to try to get a "refellal" for an ADHD diagnosis from my new family doctor.
In Norway you still pay for the public health service, but it's never more than 30-40$ for a visit, MRI/X-ray or a specialist visit. And all yearly expenses are capped at 300$.
The catch is that it's HARD to get sent to a psychologist, especially being seen as a foreigner whos trying to milk the state.
I prepared a lot, read diagnostic criteria and about ADHD in general. Understood that I have to prove that I struggle in 2 or more domains in life to get help. Was cued by my wife to avoid my tendency to whitewashing myself and sugaring up my situation. I stopped taking my supplements (vit D & fishoil for mood, magnesium lactate for sleep) and meditating a week before the visit to get a "referal" and the psychologist visit too. It felt very dishonest doing that at first, but when I read my notes, realizing that it's all truth, just underscoring elements showing issues with work, academic performance, mental health and family life, I thought that not doing it is dishonest towards my wife, my family and myself.
After 2 months the Psychological Centre replied to my doctor's note (he makes a note during the visit and sends it to them). This time my doctor was rooting for me, don't know how the note looked, but it was enough. I got the first visit in 6 months.
So far there has been 8 1-2h vists. Psychologist I'm working with is very competent and experienced. Added bonus is that she is Polish. I thought it wouldn't be an issue, but I did struggle a bit with spoken Norwegian when the language was diametrally different than what I use day to day.
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