>It's a nice dream, of a synthesizer where any knob can be pulled out and replaced with a patch cable, and any jack can have a knob plugged into it to set it to a fixed value.
What's even better, though, is a coupled knob + jack where the knob turns into an attenuator for the input when a cable is plugged in, and works as a standalone knob otherwise. I think this is quite a common design.
I believe I've also seen patch cables with built-in attenuators.
This is why I really like Intellijelās designs. They generally have attenuators on the inputs for which it makes sense, and those attenuators are the small stick knobs. While they use larger knobs for more central module functions.
Eg: https://intellijel.com/downloads/manuals/rubicon_manual.pdf
Another common pattern is jack + offset. The most useful is when you have jack + offset + attenuatorā¦ but most modules pick one or the other for space reasons.
The attenuator-inverter is super handy too. A gain knob that goes from -1 to +1 X.
That's a neat trick. Only way I can think of to do it involves two op amp buffers, one inverting one not and take the signal from the wiper.
Totally. Also, an attenuator is easier and cheaper to implement, because it just requires normalizing V+ into the jack plug. An offset requires an adder.
My preference is: attenuator < offset < attenuator + offset. I see no benefit of having to remove the knob to get to the jack as proposed in the article.
The benefit is saving space. Imagine a 10x10 grid of such jack / knob inputs.
the smartest pattern is used in mutable instruments beads, the "attenurandomizers"
it packs a ridiculous amount of functionality into a single plug & knob combo
I like it, but the best modules already have knobs and jacks for everything. When you have CV going into the jack, the knob acts as an attenuator or attenuverter. This means that the modules are generally larger. Make Noise generally does this and their modules are consistently bigger than everyone else, and they're also some of the most popular. Look at Maths. It's a slope generator and a mixer. It's fucking huge. But everyone has it because it's patch programmable. The problem in Eurorack is instead of making things patch programmable, they try to fit in a ton of functionality into a small space, so you have a lot of modules that have multiple modes where buttons and knobs all have different meanings depending on what "page" you're on. Fuck that. Almost every time I try a module like that, I end up selling it.
He's right about the interface being the point of Eurorack. Plugging things into other things is the whole point. When I have a module that has hidden state, I forget what state it's in or what the knobs mean. I end up avoiding those modules. With cables and knobs, I can see the state of the whole system. I need good cable management to make sure it's not spaghetti, but I already do that in code already, and it's not that different.
Apologies if I'm missing something obvious, but why not just stick a potentiometer on the same axis behind the 3.5mm TS jack? Many 3.5mm jacks are open on the back, so you can give the knob a long shaft (longer than 3.5mm obviously), and that shaft can mate with the potentiometer.
Alternatively, Eurorack uses TS jacks as connectors for control voltage inputs, right? If you build a module with a TRS jack instead, you have an extra pin (R) that you can connect a removable potentiometer + knob to. And you can still plug in regular TS cables.
(Note: the article uses "TRS" loosely when it means "TS". I mean them literally.)
Yes, this sounds like a simpler solution - the major drawback/advantage would be that you'd need to insert the knob in just the right orientation so that the shaft end fits into the potentiometer's slot. Might be a bit fiddly. On the other hand, the poti would keep its state even when the knob is removed, and you wouldn't accidentally change the value when inserting the knob.
Just to nitpick the nitpicker: the knob's shaft needs to be longer than 15 mm, right? "3.5 mm" is the diameter, not the length of a small T(R)S jack.
Oops, yes, 3.5mm is the diameter. I was sleepy when I wrote that, and I knew it didn't seem right.
Good point about the orientation when inserting. I was thinking something like hex or torx or friction fit that would allow you to insert it without thinking about the orientation. But then that causes another problem: any visual markings on the knob aren't guaranteed to be in the right position. I'm not sure if there's a good way get the best of both worlds on that.
Something like this might work. When pushing the knob in, a spiral inside it rotates around the tongue that is attached to the potentiometer (or vice versa). Once it is fully pushed in, the groove in the spiral rests against the tongue, allowing the knob to turn the potentiometer. Would probably need a lot of fine-tuning to get all forces exactly right.
It's an interesting idea (truly a clever way to accomplish this!), but I think it's addressing the symptom, not the problem. The symptom is that some jacks don't have associated knobs. The problem is that either the module designer or the module user is overly obsessed with miniaturization. The designer is at fault if it's a parameter that really should have had a knob with the jack and they avoided including one in order to keep things small. The user is at fault if they're trying to stay so space-constrained that they can't fit a module that outputs an DC voltage set by a knob into their case. There are numerous modules that do this (and often that attenuvert as well) and many of them are fairly small too.
The problem is that different people have genuinely different ideas on what kind of modulations are sensible. My go-to example on this is E-mu gear - a company that started out making big modulars in the 70s and went on to dominate the sampler/rompler space for about a decade before going bust during the dot com boom and being absorbed by Creative.
the nice thing about E-my synths was that they nearly all had big modulation matrices included, although users were often defeated by the 2-line LCD on their romplers. But one strange omission from the modulation destinations was filter resonance; all their later modules included a huge (arguably excessive) selection of filter types, but for reasons of computational efficiency you could not adjust the resonance while a note was playing. This wasn't too bad from the front panel because most people want to ride the cutoff rather than the Q, but the inability to modulate it inadvertently highlighted some limitations of the filter design.
I can see both sides, as I am a 'let me modulate everything' person when choosing gear but at the same time I quite admire 'opinionated' synth designs where flexibility is traded off against maximizing sweet spots. Sometimes it's better to have an instrument with limited sonic range but which responds very consistently within that, so 'you can't get a bad sound out of it'.
Interesting idea for sure, but how is the feel of actually turning the knob? Seems to offer short to no resistance, which would make fast but precise movements pretty hard, something that is important for things like performances.
What would be a huge bonus point (but maybe unrealistic? I don't quite understand how the current implementation actually works) would be software-configurable resistance (physical, not electrical). I've spent a lot of time for my DIY modules to find the right knobs, or the right process to adjust the resistance of my existing knobs, being able to control that digitally could introduce a whole new level of fun.
You might enjoy https://github.com/scottbez1/smartknob
The complexity of this approach (ignoring the display and flair) unfortunately means you wonāt see this used too often due to cost.
That's so cool on so many levels, and I really enjoyed that indeed, now I have to fight the urge to try to build it myself, good thing it's weekend.
However, it does seem to miss the single most useful feature (for me) which is the resistance part. I understand there is a DC motor controlling the snap points and whatnot, but what I'd like is constant resistance I guess, to a configurable level, rather than snapping to specific points and such.
I don't think it would be possible to hack on top of the already made hardware, but didn't seem like it was already done in the software side of things, although I did skim through things so maybe I missed it.
Should be doable to add that. The BLDC needs to add a proportional (or any other function) force against the rotation direction until it reaches 0.
My dream is a piano keyboard with entirely software controlled mechanical key response. Every key individually mounted on a servostepper. As a bonus it could be used as a fake player piano. Or for practice you could make the wrong keys hard to press. Endless possibilities.
The Yamaha Disklavier has solenoids on every key, so you could disable every key but the one you want by moving them downwards.
It already has a similar feature called SmartKey: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_Qj33POZCyA
Great idea and Iām shocked this doesnāt exist.
> Or for practice you could make the wrong keys hard to press.
This seems like a pretty cool idea
A differently complex and smaller approach might be to combine the knob with with an axial flux PCB-BLDC, like what Carl Bugeja made [0, 1]. It might be suited to get haptics in something as small as the article's knob, although to get an in-built display you'd have to use one of those displays that fit in lego bricks [2, 3] with a slip-ring.
0. https://microbots.io/products/motorcell
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVszJMlvZcA
Many thanks for the links/references. I don't really care about the display itself (probably prefer without it actually), but never saw those other links before, interesting stuff.
This is what cars need. Only make the entire dial depressable instead of the embedded screen. Use different haptics for each setting so you can feel which setting youāre changing.
> the right process to adjust the resistance of my existing knobs
I too have "a thing" about the feel of tactile control elements ranging from the tensioning of knobs and joysticks to the dampening on sliders, the force on my emulation arcade cabinet buttons and, of course, the keyswitches, o-rings and lube on my computer mechanical keyboards.
However, I don't really feel a need for software control of the tensioning feel. For example, I have a few different high-end dual-joystick radio control transmitters for RC aircraft. These have fairly pricey hall effect joystick mechanisms and the good ones have a tensioning adjustment for each axis on the bottom. Whether on these RC transmitters, my arcade cabinet or high-end console game controllers I find it's sufficient to simply set the tensioning to my preferences once and I don't feel the need to change it again.
So for the EuroKnob, I agree having no tensioning would be pretty awful - as there's little worse than a floppily loose knob wiggling about - but for me a simple friction-based drag adjustment would be fine.
It's interesting. I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though ā do people want not just patch cables all over their mixing desk but knobs as well?
Eurorack (and modular synths in general) seem like funny things. Like guitar pedals, I sense there are a lot of enthusiasts that do a lot more tinkering than actually playing them. Watching Rick Beato and guests on YouTube ... seems like a lot of musicians are looking instead for simplicity. Like a few good sounding pedals that, ideally, each have just a knob or two.
Maybe the synth-heads are in a whole different headspace though.
> It's interesting. I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though ā do people want not just patch cables all over their mixing desk but knobs as well?
I don't personally feel the need of wanting more cables all over my current setup, but sometimes I have had the feeling of "Oh if I could just modulate the VCF Cutoff on my Zen Delay with a patch cable from my modular instead of doing it manually" for some of the desktop units I have next to the modular.
And on the other side, I've also felt the need of having some of the patch holes replaced by knobs, so I could just twist and turn it to evaluate if I want to modulate it, instead of having to actually setup the patch. I could see something like this knob-idea being very useful for that, basically prototyping patches.
> I sense there are a lot of enthusiasts that do a lot more tinkering
This is definitely true, large parts of the community is about tinkering more than making music. But the same is true for programming, large parts of the community is not about problem solving, but coding. That's fine, we all have different motivations :)
What I found really useful (for myself at least) is to try to connect with people who are artists first, who just happen to be using modular synths, rather than finding people tinkering with modular synths who don't actually produce/perform music.
> I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though
Good for you :) A friend pulled me into this dark abyss a month ago. Lots of fun, so many distractions, but lots of fun. Helps that Barcelona (where I live) have a lively community around modular synths as well. It is expensive though, and VCVRack doesn't come close to providing the same experience.
> And on the other side, I've also felt the need of having some of the patch holes replaced by knobs, so I could just twist and turn it to evaluate if I want to modulate it, instead of having to actually setup the patch.
That could be an interesting spin on this idea. A freestanding PCB with a jack plug on the back and a knob on the front. Turn the knob, and the jack sends CV accordingly. Maybe with a velcro based system to have the PCB stay still while you twiddle the knob.
> Like a few good sounding pedals that, ideally, each have just a knob or two.
It makes for a nice narrative but I haven't found it holds much water; musicians are all over the place on this spectrum. You'll find both extremes very well represented, and a good chunk of people who compartmentalize their "dayjob" music and tinkering. I've found a lot of successful musicians love to tinker and are always on the search for new inspiration. Like any good craftsperson they take some amount of pride in their tools and I've been blown away by how technical many can get on the electronics side! It's always funny to see Reverb auctions go up for famous musicians and finding out a bassist in a pop punk band owns a bunch of weird synthesizers :)
Simple one to two knob pedals are a big deal but you'll see a very large number of pros touring with extremely complicated modeling setups and all sorts of gadgets. At a certain point you really know what you want, and having the ability to dial that in is important! I tend to gravitate towards simplicity in a band setting but I know a lot of people who want dirt pedals with 10 knobs so they can dial in the sounds they hear in their heads.
I swing bimodal on this. For a while I enjoy the most exotic modular patches and loaded pedalboard. Then for months I am all about piano and acoustic guitar, as vanilla as can be.
Itās all so deep Iām not going run out of fun in any mode.
I'm the same on the guitar side. I'll go weeks using a fractal fm9 straight into the PA. it's like playing through a computer which is awesome. however...
I'll get real sick of the complexity and go back to my cranked tube amp and one overdrive pedal.
If I had to choose one, I couldn't.
100%, there's weeks I just plug straight into an amp because that feels right! At the end of the day it's great to have options.
Your pedal board/modular synth is a reflection of your personality.
Just like real life I have a tidy put together functional board, then a disturbing spaghetti mess tucked away in a corner that few are allowed to see
Maybe they are tinkering, but sounds still come out while they are tinkering. So maybe they're playing music after all? The idea that if you're not recording and releasing tracks you're doing it "wrong" is a bit silly IMO. Just strumming a guitar or playing some chords on a piano without recording any of it was always an "acceptable" hobby and not considered "unmusical", playing with synths and sequencers is no different IMO.
You're right. Someone's hobby could be "noodling" ā with a guitar, synth, etc.
My favorite documentary I have not seen (yet), I Dream of Wires from 2013, about modular synthesizers. I know in some trailer there was a maker of modules saying something to the effect that if only people actually making music with their synths bought modules he would be out of business. Can't find that trailer now or I did not watch carefully enough now. There are a few different ones on youtube.
Iām pretty sure the person who said that quote about non-professional musicians who purchase Eurorack modules was Paul Schreiber, who passed away about a month ago.
Gonna look it up, and Iāll edit this post when I find out.
Edit 1: Didnāt find the quote from the film yet, but did find [1]this video (unedited interview from I Dream of Wires) where Paul explains how he himself is not a musician, but rather an engineer.
[1] https://youtu.be/6ixv4F4XD4Y
Edit 2: Still havenāt found it.
I have the film at home, but Iām traveling in Europe at the moment, so it is out of reach for me currently.
> any jack can have a knob plugged into it to set it to a fixed value.
I'm kind of surprised he didn't start with a knob with a tiny accelerometer, mcu and battery in it to produce some sort of output signal into a stock plug depending on how the knob is oriented with respect to gravity.
Putting electronics inside the plug is nearly a mitxela trademark. https://mitxela.com/projects/flash_synth
I was wondering this - I'd buy this if I could just plug it into my existing sockets. I'm pretty sure you could get 50-100 hrs with a battery, but I wonder if you could have something that you wind-up like a mechanical watch.
Profit margins on eurorack are pretty damn low. And you need a lot of knobs and jacks and plugs. Even a hall effect sensor may be out of the sweet spot for cost.
Probably because pulling on cords can twist them. Thatās what I thought when this occurred to me.
Ok, but why stop here? You've effectively created a rotary potentiometer in one dimension, you could add two more dimensions like an analog thumbstick on a game controller. Do any controllers have a twistable thumbstick?
Also, like other commentors have stated - this could be a jack too, so you could have a jack knob analog stick.
BUT WHY STOP THERE?
You could mount it on a linear pot/slider.
BUT WHY STOP THERE?! (help me)
You could daisy chain pluggable rotary analog stick jack stacks...
----
The madness has taken him
There are several 'joystick' controller modules (Doepfer a-174-4 or Intellijel Planar come to mind) and the Doepfer also produces 3rd signal by twisting the knob.
reminds me of The Parable of the King's Toaster...
it ends with:
The king wisely had the engineer beheaded, and they all lived happily ever.
The king wisely had the computer scientist beheaded and they all lived happily ever after.
IT consultant detected.
Sanity wants you to stop? Just say no, sanity legally cannot stop you without your consent.
> Do any controllers have a twistable thumbstick?
Yes, several. For example, the main knob on the Komplete Kontrol S-series MIDI controllers (https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keyb...) combines a rotary encoder with four axis directional input, a push button and an LED indicator ring. I have an S61 and the implementation of the knob is delightfully intuitive, responsive and functional. To be clear, this implementation is not a joystick on a ball base with twistable knob, it's a flush-mounted knob that can be slightly nudged up, down, left or right with a single, satisfying click in each direction. I'd recommend trying it yourself, if only there were still any music stores that put a range of high-end midi controller keyboards out where customers could, you know, touch them.
I actually came here to suggest the same idea for the EuroKnob. The four axis directional input is basically a D-Pad module commonly used in game controllers. I find this kind of rotary knob + directional input control to be very effective. However, there's one critical caveat. It's apparently possible to implement this kind of control poorly because I've also seen a couple devices where the implementation is as bad as the S61's is great. It probably just requires a certain degree of engineering finesse to nail a good combination of responsiveness and tactile feedback.
> You could mount it on a linear pot/slider.
As much as I like and agree with your first thought, I've actually seen the idea of a rotary knob combined with a linear slider - although it's extremely rare. Having touched one myself I can confirm the reason it's rare is that it's not just bad - it's uniquely bad. By which I mean the combination of two controls which each work so well on their own into one combined control, is unexpectedly awful. I was unfortunate enough to try one first-hand (so to speak) at a tiny booth buried in the back of some long-forgotten NAMM show in the days when Cubase was still being demoed on an Atari ST. There was a bespoke mixer from a company I'd never heard of with rotary knobs on their mixer's sliders. I'm pretty sure when I tried to adjust the two parameters at the same time I may have reflexively pulled my hand back and uttered "Ugh!"
Usually I'm polite when trying out some novel interface idea but there must be something 'special' about trying to combine two very precise but divergent proportional motions on two different arm joins (wrist & elbow) at the same time that's deeply unnatural. It felt so weirdly wrong that I suspect some human factors kinesiologist has probably written an award-winning paper about how humans evolved to never, ever do this. But hey, one out of two ideas is still a great day! :-)
I saw an encoder similar to the one you like in an ultrasound once. Here is another: https://www.ctscorp.com/Resources/Press-Releases/New-Three-i...
There is something satisfying in noticing the same solution applied to problems in different domains, like audio, medicine, and aviation.
Thank you for taking my lunatic ravings semi-seriously!
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